9 comments:

1. 
   chillgirlette, 12. August 2009, 23:30
   that is seriously fucked up

    
2. 
   ohyeahsure, 13. August 2009, 3:15
   Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

   No it doesn’t. Read more carefully.

   Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get

   Well, yeah. Do you think that your insurance company doesn’t have such a committee? And one that is primarily run with profit in mind?

   Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

   Read that again, or perhaps you didn’t read it at all. That section is referring to the maximum amount that you would have to pay out (as co-pays and such)) for your own care, not the amount of medical care that you will recieve. Most private insurance have simmilar provisions.

   Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

   Really? I read the page several times and didn’t come away with this conclusion.

   PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

   Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access 2 individs finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

   I read that as real time access to records regarding your current payments to the insurance plan. If you aren’t paying in, you don’t get care. Not much different than anyone’s current plan, no? And ID card, sure. don’t you have an insurance card or other such item from your current insurance plan?

   Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to you banks accountsts for electronic funds transfer

   Refers to transactions between the insurance administration and medical providers.

   PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community orgs (ACORN).

   Really? Did you read that section? Doesn’t seem to apply to any specific group, apart from the part about applying to all retired people, spouses of those retirees and dependants of said retired people. Or are you intimating that only union members or ACORN members get to retire?

   Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control.

   A little hyperbole there, don’t you think?

   PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private health care plans in the Exchange

   Ah, did you read this section? It indicates that health care providers must offer a certain minimum level of care, with higher tiers available. Is that a bad thing?

   PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

   Hmm, did you read this section? Sounding like a broken record here. This section talks about extablishing minimum levels of care that health providers will provide at the base, or premium levels. Nothing about rationing in there.

   PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic appropropriate services. Example - Translationfor illegal aliens

   Oh please, this tired old saw? How about translation for blind of deaf patients? Would you deny them appropriate services?

   Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan

   Wow, got a hardon for ACORN, eh? Well, yet again, did you read this section? Doesn’t mention any prescribed way of letting people know of the program or emrolling people in it.

   PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans. #AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed

   What, again? I think you already used this line, guess you lost your place while reading.

   PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice

   Ah, well, did you read the section? If a person doesn’t enroll with a third party provider (the Exchange program) then they get the default of Medicaid. How is this a bad thing?

   pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Govt Monopoly

   Finally! An item that warrants looking at. Oh wait, had to bring in that boogeyman, “monopoly” didn’t you? The thing is, if you had been paying attention, health care providers can offer value added tiers that cost more beyond the minimum, I fail to see where there is a monopoly.

   pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.

   Setting a payment schedule per procedure is exactly what HMOs and PPOs do. I fail to see how this is a unique problem. If a doctor chooses not to take patients that are participating in the program, then they can charge whatever they want.

   You did miss this gem on page 126:
   20 (b) LICENSURE OR CERTIFICATION.—The Secretary
   21 shall not allow a health care provider to participate in the
   22 public health insurance option unless such provider is ap
   23 propriately licensed or certified under State law.

   Oh no!

   Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST automatiocally enroll employees into pubic option plan. NO CHOICE

   Apparently you made it this far, why not read the next passage:
   3 (2) OPT-OUT.—In no case may an employer
   4 automatically enroll an employee in a plan under
   5 paragraph (1) if such employee makes an affirmative
   6 election to opt out of such plan or to elect coverage
   7 under an employment-based health benefits plan of
   8 fered by such employer. An employer shall provide
   9 an employee with a 30-day period to make such an
   10 affirmative election before the employer may auto
   11 matically enroll the employee in such a plan.

   Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for health care for part time employees AND their families.

   Oh no! Insurance provided for part time employees. Yes, employers pay, but in proportion with the hours that the worker works. If everyone is paying, there is a level playing floor, is this a problem for you? Wouldn’t it be nice if WalMart paid for their employees’ health care?

   Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll of 400k & above who does not provide public option. pays 8% tax on all payroll

   Okay, so is that employer paying less than 8% for health care contributions currently?

   pg 150 Lines 9-13 Business payroll between 251k & 400k who doesn’t provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

   Yeah, same as above. Seems like really inexpensive health care for their workers.

   Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable health care according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income

   And if you didn’t have any health care, you probably aren’t making much, right? I’m amazed at your concern for the poor. Oh, wait, 2.5% would probably be a bargain for health care for people who weren’t receiving any other health care.

   Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NON-RESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay for their health care)

   Ah, I guess you are trying to say that this would pay for illegal aliens. Did you miss this portion on page 143?

   3 SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED
   4 ALIENS.
   5 Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
   6 for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
   7 not lawfully present in the United States.

   Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of health care Administration (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records

   That is not what this section says. I’m beginning to get the impression that you haven’t read this thing. It says that tax/income information can be checked to determine eligibility for “affordability credit”, whatever that may be.

   PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that

   So? Did you bother to read the words around that phrase?
   13 ‘‘(4) NOT TREATED AS TAX IMPOSED BY THIS
   14 CHAPTER FOR CERTAIN PURPOSES.—

   Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected

   Okay, obviously you didn’t even glance at this section.

   Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesn’t matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same

   And yet again, nothing at all like this on that page. I’m thinking that you’ve lost track of pages here.

   PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr’s time, professional judgment, etc. Literally value of humans.

   Oh no! The very same thing that Insurance companies and HMOs/PPOs do. Tilting at windmills here, don’t you think?

   PG 265 Sec 1131 Govt mandates & controls productivity for private health care industries

   Umm, did you read the section?
   1 PART 2—MARKET BASKET UPDATES
   2 SEC. 1131. INCORPORATING PRODUCTIVITY IMPROVE
   3 MENTS INTO MARKET BASKET UPDATES
   4 THAT DO NOT ALREADY INCORPORATE SUCH
   5 IMPROVEMENTS.

   How is that a bad thing?

   PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs

   And there is no limit now? Seems like a pathway to fraud without any regulations. Power wheelchairs for everyone!

   PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

   Did you read this?
   10 ‘‘(A) STUDY.—The Secretary shall conduct
   11 a study to determine if, under the system under
   12 this subsection, costs incurred by hospitals de
   13 scribed in section 1886(d)(1)(B)(v) with respect
   14 to ambulatory payment classification groups ex
   15 ceed those costs incurred by other hospitals fur
   16 nishing services under this subsection (as deter
   17 mined appropriate by the Secretary).

   So, reviewing above normal costs is a bad thing?

   Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable readmissions.

   I think the wording was:
   10 ‘‘(p) ADJUSTMENT TO HOSPITAL PAYMENTS FOR
   11 EXCESS READMISSIONS.—

   So, let’s try to fix patients up the first time, right? At least most of the time. Seems like a good deal for patients. Maybe less “slap a patch on them and out the door” medicine.

   Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission- Govt will penalize you.

   Well, at least there will be a study on the issue (from page 297):
   17 (1) STUDY.—The Secretary of Health and
   18 Human Services shall conduct a study to determine
   19 how the readmissions policy described in the pre20
   vious subsections could be applied to physicians.

   Oh, and no penalty mentioned, just reduced fee schedules for repeat procedures. Seems like a sensible fraud prevention measure, and likely appealable if needed.

   Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investmen t. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

   Ah, no. Once again, I get the feeling that you haven’t been reading.
   You are grabbing onto something taken from a section entitled:

   1 ‘‘(i) REQUIREMENTS TO QUALIFY FOR RURAL PRO
   2 VIDER AND HOSPITAL OWNERSHIP EXCEPTIONS TO
   3 SELF-REFERRAL PROHIBITION.—

   Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand

   Once again, failure in reading.
   This falls under the same sub-heading as the above, which is an effort to regulate self referrals. Doesn’t seem like a bad idea, and doesn’t look like it’s an onerous imposition.

   pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!!

   ACORN! Yep, I can say it.
   But what does is have to do with anything?
   Since when is getting input from the community in which you do business a bad thing?

   Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. Health care the way they want. Rationing

   Hmm, seems like this section is trying to point the way to improving patient care. Is this not a good thing?
   Points for using “Rationing” though.

   Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv. Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan

   Yeah, read the whole section.
   3 ‘‘(iv) AUTHORITY TO DISQUALIFY
   4 CERTAIN PLANS.—In applying clauses (ii)
   5 and (iii), the Secretary may determine not
   6 to identify a Medicare Advantage plan if
   7 the Secretary has identified deficiencies in
   8 the plan’s compliance with rules for such
   9 plans under this part.

   So, if the plan isn’t playing by the rules, you’d let them keep getting money and taking care of patients?

   Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs people!

   It already does. See the following, which is referred by that section, but you probably didn’t bother reading it.
   http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/ssact/title18/1859.htm

   Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Committee. Can you say health care by phone?

   Did you read anything? This is referring to enhancements to an existing program.

   8 Subtitle F—Medicare Rural Access
   9 Protections

   This is for people who live in rural areas and may not be able to conveniently reach a medical facility in person for a variety of reasons. You are just plucking things out of the air, aren’t you?

   PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life

   Ah, a favorite. Yes, people should think about what will happen to them toward the end of their life. Make sense to have what you want to happen after you can no longer express your desires mapped out so others don’t have to guess at what you want. Want to live on, no matter how painful the procedures? Great! Let people know that.

   Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

   Really, point out in the text where the government will do anything. It’s a consultation with your doctor. And you don’t have to consult. If you do, then the doctor is supposed to cover certain topics. You make up your own mind. You can do that, can’t you?

   PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death

   Oh, yet again? how about giving you the option to learn about resources for making it easier for you to make decisions for your own medical care as you fall apart? Is it a bad thing to gain knowledge about your own care?

   PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends

   And again… this seems to be an obsession for you.

   Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An “adv. care planning consult” will be used frequentlpatients health deteriorates

   Well, yes, I believe it says that the planning consultation will be paid for more frequently than every 5 years if your health condition changes. Does this not seem like a good idea? Doesn’t mean you have to go, just that it would be paid for if you did go. But you didn’t read the text of the bill, did you?

   PG 429 Lines 10-12 “adv. care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

   Actually, it says this:
   10 ‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in
   11 clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining
   12 treatment or a similar order.

   And that’s your order. Obviously you haven’t read. You consult the doctor, who assists you or not in determining how you would like to handle your health care once you are incapable of making choices due to deteriorating health.

   Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

   You write the order, which is referred to as:
   13 ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order
   14 regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect
   15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to
   16 the treatment of that individual that—

   And as far as specifying who can sign it:
   17 ‘‘(i) is signed and dated by a physician (as de
   18 fined in subsection (r)(1)) or another health care
   19 professional (as specified by the Secretary and who
   20 is acting within the scope of the professional’s au
   21 thority under State law in signing such an order, in
   22 cluding a nurse practitioner or physician assistant)
   23 and is in a form that permits it to stay with the in
   24 dividual and be followed by health care professionals
   25 and providers across the continuum of care;

   Yeah, just about any health professional. How is this a problem. You’re just padding your list now.

   PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment u will have at end of life

   Ah, no, you just don’t get it. This is what you specify.
   11 ‘‘(B) The level of treatment indicated under subpara
   12 graph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treat
   13 ment to an indication to limit some or all or specified
   14 interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may in
   15 clude indications respecting, among other items—

   The references (A)(ii) reads thus:
   1 ‘‘(ii) effectively communicates the individual’s
   2 preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, in
   3 cluding an indication of the treatment and care de
   4 sired by the individual;

   Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

   This falls under the section:
   10 SEC. 1302. MEDICAL HOME PILOT PROGRAM.

   It’s a test program. Yet again you raise ACORN. I think you need to find some other cause to celebrate. Perhaps a religious based organization?

   Maybe read the section referred to:
   1 ‘‘(B) COMMUNITY-BASED MEDICAL HOME
   2 DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘commu
   3 nity-based medical home’ means a nonprofit
   4 community-based or State-based organization
   5 that is certified under paragraph (2) as meeting
   6 the following requirements:

   And it goes on to list a couple pages worth of requirements.

   Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

   I realize that you feel the need to cherry pick, but really, you could have at least read a bit.

   8 ‘‘(B) PER BENEFICIARY PER MONTH PAY9
   MENTS.—Under such payment methodology, the
   10 Secretary shall make two separate monthly pay11
   ments for each high need beneficiary who con12
   sents to receive medical home services through
   13 such medical home, as follows:
   14 ‘‘(i) PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED
   15 ORGANIZATION.—One monthly payment to
   16 a community-based or State-based organi17
   zation.
   18 ‘‘(ii) PAYMENT TO PRIMARY OR PRIN19
   CIPAL CARE PRACTICE.—One monthly pay20
   ment to the primary or principal care prac21
   tice for such beneficiary.

   Would you prefer that nobody was paid?
   And ACORN again? You need a new hobby.

   PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage

   Oh wow, really? Here’s the title of that section:
   19 SEC. 1308. COVERAGE OF MARRIAGE AND FAMILY THERA
   20 PIST SERVICES AND MENTAL HEALTH COUN
   21 SELOR SERVICES.

   Is this a bad thing? People get to go see a counselor or therapist if they are having problems? Or maybe you’d prefer to just let your mental problems fester.

   Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services

   So you end your list with this? It seems to me that perhaps this would be a good thing, paying for therapy.

   Keep going, there are 1018 pages to this bill, surely your cut and past source had more for you to be misinformed about.

    
3. 
   chillgirlette, 13. August 2009, 18:23
   holy shit on wheels!

   Who the hell has the time to read all that shit!!!!!!!

   Ok, so this is what I propose: from the onset ALL BILLS MUST BE WRITTEN FROM BOTH THE DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN (or right/left or conservative/liberal - or rich/poor…or yin/yang) points of view…for those of us that do (have the time to read all that shit)

   Damn, I was about ready to get out my survival books, buy a few guns, and dig a hole (hopefully to another country - maybe China or someplace where people get a fair shake

    
4. 
   nyguy, 13. August 2009, 19:02
   For those of you who thought there were no “death panel” provision in the health care bill, that portion of the bill has been removed by the Senate. Curious, how can a section of the bill be removed that was not there?
   What contributes to the fear of many is that despite the length of the health care bill it leaves too much to interpretation.
   What I want to know and what I believe many others want to know is a simple question “this is what I have now and if a health care bill is passed what will change for me”.
   I remember Obama promising in one of his stump speeches that every American will get the same coverage as our Senators do. In other campaign speeches he assured us that there would be no additional taxes levied on the middle class. Does anyone believe either of those statements?
   If you don’t than why should you believe much else about the health care bill?

    
5. 
   ohyeahsure, 13. August 2009, 19:49
   Nice dodge trying to use the “removed by the Senate” thing. You referenced the House bill in your cut and paste, not the Senate bill, and they have not gone through the combining process yet.

   What contributes to peoples’ fears are ignorant re-postings of blatantly false, and purposely misleading “evaluations”

   It’d be more worth your while to do an honest read and evaluation of the bill, or one of the bills, instead of just re-posting this drivel.

   And if it’s too long to read, well, reading is hard, you’re going to whinge and cry because it takes time to read?

   

   foreer15 reply on August 16, 2009 12:01 pm:

   Ummm…. go back and read our postings. Just your grammar useage and spell errors make you sound like an idiot. I pray you are not in Washington, DC.

    
6. 
   chillgirlette, 14. August 2009, 8:04
   ohyeahsure - whinging and crying? whatthefuckever

    
7. 
   vet64, 18. August 2009, 11:49
   Yes, I took the time to read the original post and all replies before putting fingers to keys. While I’d like to think our elected representatives have OUR best interests at heart, I’d be a damn fool to believe that. Nowhere did I see mention of the fact that six of the senators who helped craft this bill also took campaign money from pharmaceutical companies, to the tune of $6 million so where would their allegiance lie? Obama accepted money from the same source and declared health insurance for every American while stumping for president.Is he just paying off an IOU? Hard to tell with all the bombastic rhetoric flying around. Seems like a magician’s trick to me, slight of hand by distraction. Least we all forget, remember the Number One Rule — never trust a politician or a used car salesman because there is always a catch somewhere.

    
8. 
   butlerguy1990, 20. August 2009, 4:43
   Dont forget about page 16 where is prevents Private Insurance Issuers to add new polices and it also prevent existing privately insured citizens from being able to change their policy.

    

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